Shane Murphy (00:02.062)

Welcome back everybody. Today we're here with Eric Cacciatore. He's the founder and host of the Restaurant Unstoppable Movement and podcast. And over the last decade, he's interviewed well over a thousand leading restaurateurs to create one of the most comprehensive resources for running your restaurant available to the industry. Eric, I am so excited to have you with us today. Thanks for joining and sharing more about your story.

Eric Cacciatore (00:27.889)

man, it's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, man. Can't wait to get into it.

Shane Murphy (00:31.694)

Yeah, absolutely. Maybe before we do just dive in, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and your restaurants unstoppable as well?

Eric Cacciatore (00:41.522)

Yeah, of course. Before I dive into that, I am curious. This is the second time restaurant somebody is called restaurant unstoppable a movement and I'm totally cool with it. Where what is your source? I'm curious because I'm wondering if it's published out there somewhere that restaurant stoppable is a movement and I'm cool with it because I think it is a movement, but like I've never published that anywhere. So where what is your source?

Shane Murphy (01:08.91)

I think like the I think it talked about about it in the headline of your website and I was like, you know that I see this as a podcast but I do believe like this is more of a movement of our industry needs Content and resources for operators both new and old to be able to really run their business really well there's the business side of restaurants and there's the the food side and the like engagement side and

Eric Cacciatore (01:09.489)

Is it?

Okay, nice.

Shane Murphy (01:38.318)

And it's really hard to be well -rounded and we need this type of movement and content to be produced to just help people make the most of the opportunities in front of them.

Eric Cacciatore (01:50.484)

I'm on the website. I do see what you're talking about now. It does say that the driving force behind restaurant unstoppable movement. I like that. I think we should be more into the movement. I recently revamped my website and yeah, they're doing a good job. I'm not working on it. I have other people doing it.

Shane Murphy (02:05.838)

Got some creatives creating the movement. I love it.

Eric Cacciatore (02:07.413)

Yeah, I love it. So to answer your question, I grew up in the restaurant industry. My parents opened a restaurant when I was three years old. They had it for 10 years. I saw how hard my parents worked. I had dreams of opening my own restaurant. My parents like, are you kidding? Have you learned nothing from our experience? Go get a real job. Like we work so hard so you don't have to. So I ended up becoming a commercial pilot. I did that from the time I was 17 to the time that I was 26.

realized that aviation wasn't my calling, as a young man. And then I just, I was like, you know what? Like I could, I could continue down, down this path that just doesn't feel right. And I could be unhappy and just, you know, not doing what I was meant to do, or I can make the hard decision to go back to school from marketing and hospitality or to resign from aviation and focus on what I truly love, which is hospitality. and I made that hard decision with $200 ,000 of school loan debt.

And I thought, you know, if I can't work in restaurants, because I would never be able to pay off my debt, then I want to work with restaurants. And I was trying to figure out what can I do to make some decent cheddar working with restaurant owners? Because really what I love about the restaurant industry is the people that work in the industry. It's just the most fun I've ever had doing any kind of work. I'm not afraid of working hard. So I thought I'd get into sales. And then.

I thought wine sales would be interesting. So I took a job as an assistant winemaker and I was around this time I went back to school for marketing and hospitality and it was mostly to defer my school loans because it was like $1 ,100 a month and if I went back to school part time I didn't have to pay my school loans and it was cheaper to go back to school part time at a community college than it was to pay off my school loans. So I was working the system but during this time I discovered podcast.

When I was working at the winery to learn more about wine and I just fell in love. I was listening to 16 hours of audio a day. That's an eight hour shift at times to, you know, like in the cellar all day by myself, listening to entrepreneurial marketing, personal growth type podcasts. And it was just a, it, it was just a game changer for me, being dyslexic, you know, like I don't really enjoy reading. So.

Eric Cacciatore (04:28.89)

finding a medium that lets me absorb information and get inspired. I wanted to recreate what I fell in love with for the restaurant industry. You know, there wasn't a solid restaurant podcast in 2013. So I was looking for it and the the idea came into my head to create what I was looking for. And that was a little more long winded than I wanted it to be. Hopefully it wasn't too long of a answer for you.

Shane Murphy (04:52.398)

Well, no, I love that and it's awesome because you were so hungry for the content and could see, hey, there's an opportunity in an opening here. I want more of this. And you were in a position to actually go and help create that. So that's awesome.

Eric Cacciatore (05:08.828)

Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the quotes I heard that was all I really needed the inspiration was if you're looking for something and you can't find it, there's a good chance that you're not the only person looking and there's an opportunity there. The second quote I heard was if you help enough other people achieve what they want in life, you can have anything in life. And I just felt like that really resonated with me because I wanted to work in restaurants or at least my dream was to open a restaurant.

but that wasn't an option for me because I wasn't $200 ,000 in school loan debt. So I was like, well, if I'm not in the position to open my restaurant, if I help enough other people who are in the position, maybe one day it will be my turn.

Shane Murphy (05:51.982)

Yeah, and you're coming up on over 11 years now of doing these podcast interviews, right?

Eric Cacciatore (05:58.301)

Yeah, we're in our 10th year right now, so it's been about 10 and a half years.

Shane Murphy (06:04.078)

that's so cool. And so when you think about that over the last 10 and a half years, what are some of the greatest learnings as it relates to restaurant marketing that you've been able to like suck out of the restaurant tours that you've had the opportunity to chat with?

Eric Cacciatore (06:22.495)

man, that's a loaded question. You know, and this isn't super techie. I still believe at the end of the day, we are all human and we might be living in a world that is beholden to Moore's law where technology is improving at an exponential rate. But at the end of the day, we're still human beings. And I think that with all the tech in the world, you know, the most important thing is four walls marketing.

you can invest in all the technology and the time and energy to You know Get the lat like the latest school thought in regards to technology But at the end of the day, we're still feeding people and we're making people happy and you can drive them to your business But if you don't keep them there By giving them great service and a community and love then they're just gonna go someplace else so I think the biggest lesson at the end of the day for me is really

four walls marketing will always be king. Word of mouth marketing will always be king. how you make people feel is, is the most important thing. but staying that, that being said, you know, staying top of mind is also really important because there's more restaurants than ever and there's more people jockeying for that, guest attention. So, I think today the most important thing you can do is, put all of your energy in the SEO. Like if.

A lot of people will talk about the importance of social media marketing for me. I think that that's not necessarily the most important thing. I think direct mail marketing is the most important or I would say SEO cause you have to be discovered. And then from there, you know, getting people to your website converting, from, I just discovered your business to I'm now ordering from you online. And then from there, I'd say direct mail marketing. so anything email lists, SMS, and you know,

any type of way you can automate that and streamline that process is really valuable.

Shane Murphy (08:25.678)

Yeah, so there's obviously like the four walls concept of I have to have a good business. I have to make sure I'm taking care of the people coming in, giving them the good experience, giving them reasons why they would come back and talk about the experience. But then when it's like, hey, I need to get discovered in the first place outside of word of mouth. It's like the SEO and getting discovered to the first online order.

There's kind of a different pulse when you're talking about the online side versus the direct mail of, I'm an offline customer that I'm trying to attract.

How do you see the balance between those two things? Is it equal and you have to kind of balance them both simultaneously? Is it one before the other? How do you think about that?

Eric Cacciatore (09:20.58)

What am I balancing again? Help me understand the balance.

Shane Murphy (09:22.254)

Like the like SEO of like hey, I'm trying to drive online traffic to my website and get get to that online order versus a direct mail piece where this is somebody offline and I'm getting something physical in front of that person

Eric Cacciatore (09:40.453)

How do you balance the priority between those two? You know, I mean, today you really have to be omnidirectional. I told myself I wasn't gonna use this expression because I know that you guys are a marketing tool and I'm not saying that marketing is bad.

holy, but I do think that marketing is the bane of human existence. I'll just get it out there. it's one of these things that is a, it's a necessary evil, right? And, I think that, you know, in terms of like finding the balance, you know, it's, I, I worry sometimes that owners are out of, out of fear, always focusing on how can I promote myself? How can I, stay on top of mine? How can I,

get as many eyes on me and my business as possible. And the job to do that is so overwhelming, especially for an independent operator who maybe doesn't have a marketing firm hired out for them. So in terms of the balance, it's like, again, at the end of the day, you could do all you can to drive traffic into your business. If they show up and they don't enjoy themselves, if they're not having a good in -store experience, then they're never going to come back. So I guess...

to answer your question in terms of bouncing between, you know, SEO and the SMS direct mail marketing. I think SEO is a one, kind of like a one stop shop. I think most of your, how do I say this? In terms of SEO and website, don't try to do it yourself. That shouldn't be something that you're doing. It's way better for you to budget.

a monthly, you know, whatever the fee might be, depending on whatever company you go with to have them just handle the website, handle the SEO. I think it might be for like a 50 bucks a month, you know, don't quote me exactly. You could have a company, that does web design, that does SEO, that does all that stuff. That's constantly evolving your, your website management tool, whatever that is. I think it's more important to manage the communication, the messaging.

Eric Cacciatore (11:50.154)

that you're putting out there with SMS or direct mail marketing email. More of your energy should be going to that for sure because you should be outsourcing your SEO, your website design and all that stuff in my personal opinion. Again, that was a long -winded answer. But at the end of the day, it's worth nothing if people aren't enjoying themselves in the four walls of your business.

Shane Murphy (12:12.43)

Yeah, we talk about this a lot and it comes up very often in the podcast that if you don't have the good fundamentals for your restaurant under the hood, no amount of marketing is gonna save you. Like you have to have that good experience. And I'm also a big believer that every restaurant has a unique story to tell. And...

Eric Cacciatore (12:27.817)

Yeah.

Shane Murphy (12:40.206)

the best person to tell that story is going to be you as the restaurant owner. And putting that out there is frightening. You're running a business, you're busy, and sometimes it's really scary to be vulnerable and put your story out there and to be the one on camera or putting your voice to it or even just texting it out. You've had a really unique experience where,

You go around and do really in -depth interviews with restaurant operators of all types. It doesn't matter if you have your name in lights in a big city, you really try to get down to the story of a lot of these independents. When you think of the story that they have to tell, what advice would you give a newer operator or someone who's afraid to tell their story?

of their restaurant in like a public -facing setting, what would you say to those people from the insights that you've gathered by doing these thousands of interviews?

Eric Cacciatore (13:51.916)

So is the question what am I doing to help people understand why it's important to open up and share your story?

Shane Murphy (13:59.63)

we can, yeah, let's, let's go down that path and then just taking like advice to someone who's afraid to tell that story as well.

Eric Cacciatore (14:08.495)

Okay, I mean, you know, you know, public, what is it? The most, the most common fear is like public speaking, right? It's like more than like dot like death or something like that. The number one public fear of I think at the end of the day, the more open, the more vulnerable you get, the more you open up, the more you expose yourself, the more trust you're going to build. There's nothing you can say at the end of the day. We're all human. I think a lot of times we get in our own head of like, like what is everybody going to think of me? Like in me, me, my image, me.

Are we allowed to swear in this podcast? This is a business podcast. I'll clean it up. Nobody gives an F about you and what's going on in your life. They don't. They like at the end of the day, everyone's all they're all in their own head. What you think is a huge deal that's earth shattering and it's going to like, no, like change everyone's opinion of you. Like they're going to get over it. You know, like they'll if anything, they'll admire you more for being so vulnerable. And if you think the analogy I like to use,

You think of a dog, you meet a dog for the first time. And if it's like a, if it's a timid dog, what is it probably going to do? What do you, when you see it rolls over on its back and it exposes its belly because it knows that if it gets, if it gets vulnerable, you will trust it. and vulnerability is, is probably the biggest, fastest way to earn a trust.

And again, like get out of your own head because what you think is a big deal, whatever you're most ashamed of or embarrassed about, nobody cares. Only you do. Like get over yourself. It's gonna be okay.

Shane Murphy (15:50.094)

I love that message. It's gonna be okay. And once you take that first step, it always gets easier to do it in the future. If you do that consistently, you fall into a rhythm and it gets better.

Eric Cacciatore (15:52.207)

Yeah.

Eric Cacciatore (16:04.401)

You got to give trust before you get it. And the way you give like you the way you give trust is giving people vulnerable information about yourself. You trust them to not look at you differently after they know your deepest, darkest secret or whatever the reality is. But being caught in a lie, saying one thing and having the something else be the reality is the fastest way to lose trust. To misrepresent yourself.

Shane Murphy (16:31.182)

I saw, I saw this a lot during, during COVID when 2020 started happening. Restaurants that had, I had never heard their story before. All of a sudden they started sharing their story and it was kind of, it was forced out of them because it's, we're going to close and we're going to die. Or we open ourselves up to, to the community and say, Hey, we're struggling. We're having a hard time, but here's why this is important and we're something worth keeping around.

And there are a few people that I've noticed that from that moment on, they kept sharing that type of story and kept talking about their roots and the challenges that their restaurant has gone through. And they're absolutely thriving today. But many others stopped sharing that once, like, they were able to open up normally again. And there is a difference between the people who...

maintain that connection with their audience. And the restaurant industry has experienced several waves of challenges throughout the years, whether it's labor, food costs, you name it. And it has cycled through many different things. When you look over the next year or two, what are some of the challenges that you expect the restaurant industry to be facing?

Eric Cacciatore (18:00.212)

Man, that's a loaded one. There's so many things coming down the barrel. Over the next year or two, in terms of challenges, I think we're gonna see the cost of labor continue to go up, the cost of goods that continue to go up. More restaurants are gonna be opening. I think, you know, more...

There's gonna be more diversification to more options for the consumer, more distractions for the consumer. You can get, like today, what I mean by diversification, you can get food, you know, you can go eat in a restaurant like we traditionally understand. We can pick it up, we can have it delivered to us, we can use ghost kitchens. There's, you know, fine dining, full service, quick service, fast casual.

fine casual, you know, like there are so many options to the consumer, you know, delivered me, like, what is it meal kits? That's another whole thing. you know, or just like frozen meals, like there are so many ways to get food to the consumer today. And I don't think that's going anywhere. I think of anything, the way the, the, the options, the different experiences the consumer will have be able to choose from to eat is going to continue to diversify.

So I think one of the challenges is just understanding what vertical you belong in or trying to figure out how to have what you offer meet people at all those different places. You know, like if you're a full service restaurant, how do you meet them at all those touch points? How can you provide an option to get your food to them, whether it be in a monthly meal plan or

If you're looking at improving your delivery game or you're creating systems for them to pick it up easier, how can you meet your guests at every possible touch point? I think, I think the other big challenge too is that in this dynamic world we live in, dynamic meaning it's constantly changing, constantly evolving. I think we're getting to this point where technology, I mentioned Moore's law earlier, it's improving.

Eric Cacciatore (20:12.505)

exponentially. And now with AI, speeding up that process of evolution in technology, even like exponential means it gets faster and faster and that it never stops getting faster. The change of or the rate of improvement never stops getting faster. And I think we've reached this point where the average mushy human brain can't keep up with the rate of change that would.

that technology is improving. So it's like, yeah, all these advancements in technology might be happening, but the average human is overwhelmed by the rate of change. And like, they just figure out one thing, three months goes by, and now that's outdated tech, you know? And it's just like, this keeping up with that is so overwhelming. So I kind of, I think I answered your question with a lot of different challenges, but yeah.

Shane Murphy (21:03.599)

Yeah. And you know, it's, it's one of those things where whenever there are these big challenges, there are opportunities as well, but you have to think and act differently at times. You said something earlier in the podcast of when you talk about four walls marketing, have that in place and then just staying top of mind in front of your customers is like the next crucial piece. And.

in a world where there are going to be more distractions, there are going to be more options, getting beyond just a surface level, like communication with your guest is likely not going to be enough. You're going to want to build that relationship and it starts in those four walls and then it expands to how you continue to engage and communicate directly with your audience. You know, we went through a wave,

over the last few years where increasingly all of the third parties begin to own the relationship with the guest and they stay top of mind almost at the expense sometimes of the restaurant themselves. And with all those things that you're describing, I think it's crucial to have that direct relationship and to be able to manage it.

Eric Cacciatore (22:28.057)

Right. Yeah. You know, my mission statement is to inspire, empower and change the industry. Really, it's to change the world through inspiring, empowering and transforming the industry. And a lot of what I'm trying to do isn't just like to teach the owner the best way to do something, but to also get them their heads above the clouds and say, listen, like we.

this industry, the food and beverage industry, the hospitality industry is responsible for so many ancillary industries that spin out of it. we, this industry creates opportunity for other industry. And the point I'm trying to make is like what you're talking about with third party. I think the restaurant industry has this history of being guilty of his heads down grinding, working, focusing on the thing we have to do today. And we're, we're not seeing, we're not putting our head above the clouds to see how all these other,

ancillary adjacent industries are basically just pulling the value out of our industry or exploiting the people that are working so hard and not giving them like, like rest. There's no reason why, here's an example, a perfect example. in New York, I recently came across this article where, there are people that are going in purchasing all of the reservations.

They have bots that go out and they they they make all the reservations at all the restaurants and then they sell those reservations to guests at a premium like $500 and a Friday night to go to this restaurant and then what's happening is if they don't sell all the reservations that their bots purchased or made Like they'll cancel sometimes as many as 70 % of or 30 % only like 70 % of the reservations actually are fulfilled And you think that $600 is going back to the restaurant. No like somebody

is taking that money. So the point I'm trying to make is, I think the owner could be better. I think the industry could be better about communicating and collectively saying, screw that. We are not, we like these ancillary companies rely on us. We, we can choose to not play the game and they will be forced to play it to our, our rules. but it's going to, it's going to have to be from us communicating and talking again, getting your head out of the clouds and saying, what's going on here? Like, wait,

Eric Cacciatore (24:48.761)

They're doing what? They're not giving us any of the customer data. Well, screw this. Let's just not let these companies like this is not use these companies like it. Will that be painful? Yeah, I mean, but the power of an industry banning, banning together and sharing information, you know, it would happen overnight. Changes would happen if you just pulled, if you just stop fulfilling the orders, like see how fast like there can be a restaurant owner strike, you know, like we can do it.

Shane Murphy (25:13.774)

Yeah.

Eric Cacciatore (25:17.753)

when those companies depend on us.

Shane Murphy (25:21.006)

Yeah, I mean, the these restaurant owners, they really have a lot of power if we combine together the opportunity to do. Yeah.

Eric Cacciatore (25:30.233)

Third largest industry in the world, dude. Like we have so much influence. We just have to get our heads out of out of our butts. Pardon my language.

Shane Murphy (25:40.75)

Yeah, no, I think it's so true. And I love the mission that you're on, you know, inspiring restaurant owners to, you know, make the most of the opportunities that they have in front of them because their opportunities are vast and massive. And so thank you for giving to the industry and for everything that you're doing, you know, and thanks for coming on here and sharing some of this golden and wisdom. What's the best way for people to follow you and Restaurant Unstoppable?

Eric Cacciatore (26:11.513)

you know, the best way honestly is to just subscribe to the website, or, you know, to our email list into, you know, any, player, iTunes, Spotify, look up restaurant podcasts. There's going to be a profile of a handsome face talking into a pineapple microphone. That's me subscribe. and you know, thank you, thank you. we're doing a lot of cool stuff right now. You know, like you said, it's been over 10 years. We have.

Shane Murphy (26:34.35)

Very handsome.

Eric Cacciatore (26:40.185)

1100 interviews recorded and, the show has continued to evolve. And, I like to say that our unique selling proposition is trust. and I think the most trusted form of marketing is, and will always be word of mouth. so the reason I'm living this lifestyle, the reason why I live in a camper is so I can go chase the truth and to use word of mouth to be my, my North star. and the last question I ask all my guests is who do you respect and admire?

And that's what I chase is, you know, success recognizes success and behind every great restaurant, it's a great person. And we're trying to find those those gems, those amazing operators out there. And we're really just trying to collect all the data and, you know, make it as digestible as possible. So, yeah, check it out. We'd love to have you join our community, Facebook restaurant, unstoppable network. And I'll stop pitching now.

Shane Murphy (27:37.806)

Awesome. Well, Eric, thank you so much for coming on Restaurant Rocket Fuel today and sharing all of this. Really appreciate it.

Eric Cacciatore (27:38.713)

Yeah.

Eric Cacciatore (27:44.857)

Restaurant Stoppable Podcast is the handle on Instagram. I almost forgot to mention that. Thank you for having me, Shane.

Shane Murphy (27:51.886)

Awesome.